BART KAMP of Dealey Plaza UK and the ROKC group joins S.T. Patrick to discuss the Prayer Man photograph, Lee Oswald’s final day of freedom, and the employees at the Texas School Book Depository. Kamp addresses his entrance into the JFK assassination community, the origins of the Prayer Man figure and who Kamp believes it may be, the employees in the Texas School Book Depository and what they saw on 11/22/63, the Prayer Man vs Doorway Man controversy, what Lee Oswald could and could have done in the time allowed by the Warren Commission, the other employees on the steps, the need for better photographic scans, and much more.
Bart Kamp can be followed at Prayer-Man.com. It’s a nice website with a lot of information and pictures. We highly suggest paying Bart a visit.
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Kamp is very precise and a game changer. this ties together all the vids and photos of the Tx School Book Dep in the seconds and minutes after the shooting 11/22/63. lee Oswald was where Fritz’s few notes made months later probably for his Warren Committee testimony said he was at the shooting. Out in front with Bill Shelly (one of the TSBD employees). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU&t=1901s
First time listener, love the show.
Agreed that Prayer Man resembles Lee Oswald.
Would be a great alibi, of course 24 others had an alibi.
24 innocent people who were with family or friends. Their alibi was denied them too… But thanks to the innocence project 23 have been freed from TX prisons who committed no crime, had an alibi and yet got life, or even death(one) sentences. This was Texas, Dallas county under District Attorney Henry Wade.
You could be at home and the DA would say you raped a lady.
Guess who the jurors believed, jurors aggressively picked by Wade (or his associates) following his guidance of packing a jury.
Also ask why the FBI and Justice department have retroactively declared Lee guilty.
His case is closed according to Federal Government Agencies.
How?
Lee never was convicted, unlike the 24 the Texas innocence project proved not guilty. Lee never faced his accuser, never had legal counsel, never got to answer the case.
Was never in a court of law.
Never had trial by judge or jury.
Yet they claim his cade closed and Lee is guilty. How can the FBI and Justice department claim such. It goes against everything just and righteous.
Due process must have escaped them.
Law and order doesnt mean a whole lot anymore.
Presumed innocent is tossed aside.
What judicial authority for them to declare a person whom are dead, never had trial and no representation is now guilty. I am appalled.
We dont have faith in justice anymore it seems, wonder why.
Hello, ST!
You really have made MWN into one of the most indispensable political news podcasts on the Net. I really look forward to each release. Great job.
Thank you for your interview with Mr. Kamp. I’ve been following the Prayer Man controversy for several years now and I gotta tell you: I just don’t buy it.
I’m a photographer myself so I do know how lenses and perspective and light can distort things. The person in the back corner of the TSBD entranceway looks bulkier and balder than LHO, and much shorter. You can see in Kamp’s most featured frame Wesley Frazier standing a couple feet to the right of PM, in profile looking toward the Triple Underpass. Frazier looks at least a foot taller than PM, when he was just a few inches taller than Oswald.
But you really put your finger on the real issue here, one that Kamp had no answer for. PM is surrounded by people in that photo, people we all know: Frazier, Billy Lovelady, Bill Shelley. And others. There is no way that all of these people would have just let Oswald hang out to dry if he was really there, in plain site 5 floors away from the sniper’s nest.
Now I have no doubt that Oswald was framed and that he was exactly where he said he was at the time of the shots: either on the first or second floor of the TSBD. But he wasn’t standing outside amidst a bunch of coworkers.
Keep up the great work. And more Rob Clark! 🙂
Thanks so much! Rob Clark has his own show, which does very well. He has been kind enough to be a quarterly guest host for us, and we are appreciative of what he does. We look forward to hearing his new episodes for MWN in September and then again December. Keep listening! – STP
Hello, ST!
Oh yes, I’m very familiar with Brother Rob. An awesome series of broadcasts:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/wwwstitchercomspreakerthelonegunmanpodcast/the-lone-gunman-podcast
Just wish he would stop disappearing!
EJK Frazier was 6’2″, Oswald 5’9″ and he was a step down. 7+5=12″. this is a still from video tape you are referring to, and blurred. in enhanced images, Oswald’s arm and wrist are dif thicknesses. he wore a long sleeved shirt. and finally, anyone not towing the lone nut line was pressured, threatened, or dead in the following months. Frazier, 19 yr old country boy was picked up and hauled downtown and accused by Fritz as being an accomplice. in 2013 he id’d himself in the still you are talking about but says he “doesn’t remember” seeing Prayerman. also, PM was at a rear corner and not seen by many, but again think of the huge pressure. the dr Perry at Parkland stated a throat wound of entry in very early interview about 1 hr after the shooting. he did the trach though the wound. he never said so after that. same with the other docs until retirement and decades later. finally Fritz’ notes say Oswald said he was out front with Bill Shelly. how would he know this unless he was there?
That is simply not true Reuel…When Andrej Stancak tried to prove Prayer Man had a foot on the step on the Education Forum I proved that Andrej had drawn a right leg on Prayer Man that was 3 inches too long…In other words Stancak had refuted himself and proved that Prayer Man wasn’t on the step…Stancak admitted I was correct and said he would fix that overly long leg…He never did…
If you go to Buell Frazier’s 2013 interview he describes Sarah as being on the landing platform with him and deep in the shadows…In Frazier’s Garrison Trial testimony he describes Stanton as standing beside him…Since Frazier is facing right he could only describe people he could see as being “beside” him…Prayer Man is there in front of Frazier and in his field of vision…The “deep in the shadows” part is important because the deepest part of the shadows on the landing platform are on its west side over by Prayer Man…Even Kamp admits my discovery of the corner shadow of the wall and lintel as falling on Frazier’s chest…The only place that could happen would be back on the landing…And once you realize Frazier is well on the landing you can see by the naked eye that Prayer Man is also on the landing…
Digital photo expert Chris Davidson applied modern high tech enhancement software to the clear Wiegman film frame…The technology he used exaggerates very subtle differences between light and dark that are not visible to the human eye in order to make them visible…After undergoing this process the clear face of a woman came out on Prayer Man ending the issue…That face is Sarah Stanton’s, as her grand daughter Wanda agreed…
The ultimate proof came out when Thomas Graves & Sandy Larsen found Gloria Calvery at the base of the Depository steps in the Couch/Darnell film clip…Buell Frazier testified that Calvery had run to the front steps shouting the president has been shot…Frazier said he could not hear her so he turned to Sarah and asked her what Calvery had said…Sarah said “I think she said the president has been shot”…In his 2013 interview Frazier said “Then Sarah and I just looked at each other for a long time in shock”…Frazier also testified that Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery at the steps before they went up the Elm St extension…If you view the Couch/Darnell film clip it starts about 3 seconds after Lovelady & Shelley left the steps after speaking to Calvery…Calvery is seen in the black scarf climbing the steps with Betty Thornton to her right in all white…If you look at the Zapruder frame of the motorcade spectators Calvery is next to Thornton in that frame too – proving they are together in Couch/Darnell…Calvery’s son told me by phone that the woman in the black scarf is his mother…Since we now know that Couch/Darnell shows a scene that is several seconds after Calvery reached the steps we therefore know Frazier has heard Calvery shouting and is well into the process of communicating with Sarah…One look at Couch/Darnell shows Frazier facing Prayer Man, so therefore Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton…
Stanton also made a statement saying she could not see the limousine when the shots rang out…The only place the limousine was not visible from the steps was in the Prayer Man spot where the west wall of the portal blocked the view…
I’ve recently done an interview with Stanton’s grand daughter and daughter in law on You-Tube…Sarah’s grand daughter, Wanda Daniel, sent me a family photo of Stanton…When the Prayer Man image and this photo are compared Sarah’s chubby forearm is a forensic match with Prayer Man’s forearm…The height is the same, the wide women’s hips are identical, and the obese upper arms, as seen in the shoulder line, are an exact match… Wanda came right out in the interview and said after seeing the images she thinks Prayer Man is her grand mother Sarah…
Brian Doyle wrote: “Buell Frazier testified that Calvery had run to the front steps shouting the president has been shot…”
The problem is, Brian, Frazier didn’t actually say *Gloria Calvery* came running up to the steps, he just said “a girl who was crying came by”..
(Whom, of course, you and I and Sandy and Andrej, himself, believe to be Calvery…).
It was most certainly Calvery because Molina testified that Calvery continued her hysterical announcements that JFK had been shot when she entered the lobby…It has to be Calvery because, if you paid attention to my evidence, Calvery was found by yourself on the steps with Betty Thornton by her side in all white…Since you yourself discovered that Thornton was the only woman in all white in the spectators, and Calvery is besides her in Zapruder, that means the woman on the steps is also Calvery…It is proven by the fact Frazier said Calvery had spoken to Lovelady & Shelley at the steps before they went up the Elm St extension…Since the Couch/Darnell film clip shows Lovelady & Shelley already headed up the extension that means they have already spoken to Calvery by that point…Which in turn proves Calvery is on the steps in Couch/Darnell…
Bart Kamp fails to mention the 40:52 mark of Frazier’s 2013 interview video…At that time-stamp Frazier makes clear he is facing Sarah when Calvery got to the step…Since we have now proven Calvery is at the step in Darnell that means Frazier is facing Sarah at that moment…One look at Darnell shows Frazier facing Prayer Man so that makes Prayer Man Stanton…What Bart Kamp avoids says more than anything…
Kamp also fails to post the Darnell image in his latest effort to say Stanton was to Frazier’s left…Again – One look at the Darnell image shows that the obese 5 foot 5 Stanton could not be hidden, and she is not there in Darnell to Frazier’s left…Her body proportions do however line up perfectly with Prayer Man…
Hello, Reuel. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Man, I’m with you on this. I pray that Prayer Man is definitively IDed as LHO in future early generation copes of Wegman and Darnell (Of course, if that happened no doubt the NYT and MSNBC will just change their stories to: “Okay, so the Lone Nut shot Kennedy with a holstered six-shooter.” No doubt.)
You mention Frazier. Him keeping quiet about this? I don’t know. . . This is the same guy who almost came to blows the night of 11/22 with Captain Fritz. Also, I wouldn’t trust anything the Dallas pigs said about anything that weekend (or any other weekend). What Oswald really told them may have been something along the lines of:
“I’m an intelligence agent and my role on Friday was to try and stop the plot against the President. Obviously, I failed.”
But you do touch on something I’ve always struggled with in dealing with LoneNutters. If Oswald was framed — and he certainly was — considering all the people and cameras out there across Dealey Plaza, how did the plotters insure that Oswald would in fact not be hanging out next to the Stemmons Freeway sign? Or sitting on the little wall next to that liar Howard Brennan?
Any thoughts?
Oswald stood one step down, his posture says so. But the bottle and lunch sack left behind in the position by him also add on that he did not stand on the landing at that time.
What you also need to consider is that Oswald was arrested as a cop killer. Even though the press hounded him with questions in the evening about th=e JFK murders, and which he denied at all times.
The affidavits (two for Lovelady, Shelley and others) by his co-workers were all taken and bagged by that time. Who would associate himself with a cop killer? Buell Frazier was shown a confession by Fritz for him to sign just after Oswald was “arraigned” for the Tippit murder. If we also take the social and political climate in consideration then we are having a field day.
It is not just the pic, it is also the statements, newspaper reports/interviews and statements for the FBI and SS and of course the WC testimonies which exposed quite a few as blatant liars if one were to compare that testimony with their statements.it clearly shows this.
And why stick your neck out? Lose your job? Get phone calls at night? Get shot at? Etc…..
Brian Doyle is wrong on many occasions. Too many to list, so let’s stay with the core, shall we?
First of all Buell Frazier points Sarah Stanton out as standing TO HIS LEFT!
Thanks to Jake Sykes for the first one. I looked into the other two after that.
Which way is that thumb going of the lady standing next to him called Sarah?
At 18:25
https://youtu.be/i5OnbKATeSE?t=1102
Eh…..what was that Buell, she was standing where exactly?
Gary Mack specifically asks him, to his right or left and he points and says to his left!
53:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNq-y_NLvj8
By the name of Sarah, standing just beside me. BWF uses both hands before and after, but when he mentions this specific bit of Sarah Stanton his left hand only moves aiming to HIS left.
How can anyone translate this to standing west……….
At 06:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61woNu98rlM
Three videos with Buell Frazier she stood to his left.
But what is even worse is ignoring statements by Pauline Sanders who clearly states she stood at the East end of the entrance with Stanton next to her.
http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/WH_Vol22_0351b.jpg
Stanton has been IDed in the pic below.
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Pauline-Sanders-and-Sarah-Stanton-in-Darnell-in-Darnell.jpg
It’s a done deal. Stanton has been locked down, just like Roy Edward Lewis and Pauline Sanders have been in the last 3 months.
Gloria Calvery has not been IDed no matter how hard anyone has tried.
At this point:no one can point her out supported by evidence! It has been a guessing game for the last three years. In a few weeks a comprehensive study along with interviews will be released.
Here is something to ponder on.
The Darnell film is about 10-15 seconds after the final shot and you think a woman ran back faster than Officer Smith seen in the background and who stood in front of the TSBD close to Truly and Campbell.on his way to the railroad yard, it also shows all the people along Elm standing in utter bewilderment and shock..
Joe Molina saw her in the lobby and talked with her. Molina can be seen in Darnell standing to the east of Frazier. Calvery came minutes later to the front steps.
Bill Shelley’s very first statement from between 2-3 PM states clearly across the street!
http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Affidavit-In-Any-Fact-by-William-H.-Shelley-4-2.jpg
We know Lovelady and Shelley left the steps and can be seen in Couch, and their own statements.support all this.
And from me that is it. (One line here edited out by S.T. Patrick). Doyle refuses to look at ALL the evidence and he carefully selects and manipulates certain bits to concoct his own implausible scenario. So I am going to keep it with this comment only.
I have got some wonderful things to show in the next few months 😉
Better strap in Doyle……………………….
Finally many thanks to S.T. Patrick for giving me the opportunity to talk about Prayer Man being Lee Oswald.
Yes, absolutely, Stanton stood to Frazier’s left but she did so when she first came out to the steps about 10 minutes before the infamous Darnell Prayer Man image…When Frazier gestures left he is doing so in memory of Stanton’s being over there when she first came out to the landing…Just like when ST Patrick suggests to Kamp that it would be highly unlikely Oswald would be out there in front of dozens of people and not be mentioned, Kamp doesn’t really have any answer to the fact Stanton is not seen to Frazier’s left in the Darnell image…All we see to Frazier’s left is Molina…
The person Kamp selects as being Sarah Stanton is not her…If Kamp paid attention to those same videos he links he would see Frazier clearly mentioned several times in different interviews that Stanton was on the landing beside him…Kamp’s choice is neither, and if you were paying even more attention you would realize Kamp’s Stanton could see the limousine from that spot…Stanton said she could not see the limousine from her position during the shots…The person Kamp selects is also too far away from, and below, Frazier for Frazier to turn to like he said…
Kamp is not telling the truth when he says Gloria Calvery has not been identified…I spoke to Gloria’s son Chris and tried to get him to identify Running Woman as his mother…Turns out I was wrong and Chris corrected me, telling me that “Tall Woman” in Betzner 3 was his mother…I enlarged Betzner 3 on my smartphone and sure enough there was Gloria in the dark scarf otherwise known as “Tall Woman”…
It is important to keep Kamp honest on this particular point because I have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the woman on the steps in the dark scarf is Calvery…Thomas Graves proved that Betty Thornton was the only woman wearing all white in the motorcade spectators…Thornton is seen standing next to Calvery in the Newsweek Zapruder frame where Roberdeau placed names on all the spectators watching the motorcade…Since Thornton is next to Calvery in the spectators it proves she is next to her on the steps…It is obvious that Thornton ran with Calvery over to the steps and stayed by her…In that same Newsweek Zapruder frame we see Peggy Burney to Calvery’s opposite side…Sure enough we see Burney following-up Thornton and Calvery in the Couch/Darnell clip as “Running Woman”…This is proven by the fact Running Woman has Burney’s exact white blouse and black skirt…It makes sense that Burney followed the people she was with in the spectators back to the steps…
Again, Kamp has failed to account for the fact both Frazier and Lovelady testified that Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery at the base of the steps before going up the Elm St extension…Kamp seems to be confused here because Couch/Darnell shows beyond a doubt that Lovelady & Shelley are on their way up the extension when the film clip starts…That means the Couch/Darnell clip starts about 3 seconds after Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery…Therefore, Calvery’s being at the steps is verified in the Couch/Darnell clip by the timing of Lovelady & Shelley’s departure from the steps…Calvery has to be at the steps by this time because several witnesses, including Lovelady and Frazier, described her being there…Shelley obviously mistook Burney for Calvery when he said he spoke to her by the concrete island…The film clip shows Shelley say something to Burney as she ran by the concrete island…
It is unfortunate that Kamp opts to deny this obvious evidence of Calvery being on the steps in Couch/Darnell….It is more than proven by everything I discussed above…Once you prove Calvery is on the steps, and has therefore already communicated to Frazier that the president had been shot, the timing that Frazier spells-out in his 2013 interview falls in to place and proves he is talking to Sarah at the exact moment Darnell shows him looking at Prayer Man…Like with Carolyn Arnold’s witnessing of Oswald in the lunch room, Kamp is forced to deny this evidence because he knows it refutes his Prayer Man claim…
The Couch/Darnell clip starts at about 25 seconds after the last shot…It is exactly the right timing it would have taken for Gloria Calvery to reach the steps after fleeing there in a panic from her position in the motorcade spectators…
Molina went into the lobby just ahead of Calvery where Calvery continued her hysterical announcement that the president had been shot just seconds after the scene you see in Couch/Darnell…A good detective will see how all this fits together perfectly…
I forgot to include something with the paragraph below.
Here is something to ponder on.
The Darnell film is about 10-15 seconds after the final shot and you think a woman ran back faster than Officer Smith seen in the background and who stood in front of the TSBD close to Truly and Campbell.on his way to the railroad yard, it also shows all the people along Elm standing in utter bewilderment and shock.. You think a lady would have run that quick up those steps, before Shelley and Lovelady made it across and spoke with her.? Ran faster than Baker and Smith?
http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Beyond.JFK_.The_.Question.of_.Conspiracy.Doc-Grym.baker-and-Smith.jpg
Brian Doyle you can’t just say something like
“It was most certainly Calvery because Molina testified that Calvery continued her hysterical announcements that JFK had been shot when she entered the lobby”
Because this is not true.
She did not continue anything.
Molina said he went down to grassy knoll and then went back inside… did not see Gloria till later in the lobby.
Brian try and be more accurate.
Mr. Molina: I just stood there and shook my head. I didn’t want to .think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said “Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else”, something like that.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn’t see a police officer. I don’t recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a white-helmeted police officer any time there in the entrance?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, of course, there might have been one after they secured the building, you know.
Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
Mr. BALL. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. MOLINA. No.
Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Doesnt work for what drivel Brian is offering.
Craig Calvery gave no identification of the woman on the steps.
Brian fudges things to get to a predictable outcome.
I agree with Bart,
Doyle is way off.
Cheers, Ed
I assumed Molina was in the lobby when Calvery came in from the timing…That makes sense since you can see Calvery going up the steps in Couch/Darnell…LeDoux neglects to mention Calvery had to intersect Molina at some point in that sequence if Molina went to the Knoll…
Where Molina was in relationship to Calvery’s going in to the building makes no difference…If the readers care to notice, both Mr LeDoux and Bart Kamp avoided answering the main point…Mr LeDoux accuses me of entering “drivel” but my arguments are gotten from the main established evidence and are perfectly sound…While seizing on one minor point Mr LeDoux uses it to avoid answering my main evidence that proves Frazier was talking to Prayer Man at the exact time he said he was talking to Sarah Stanton…I see Mr LeDoux made no attempt to address that so in my mind he is telling us there is nothing he can show that is wrong with it…
What counts here is where Calvery was when Frazier described hearing a hysterical woman running to the front steps shouting the president has been shot…Frazier described this event in several different interviews…In his 2013 interview he described in clear terms looking at Sarah in shock for a long time after hearing this…One look at the Couch/Darnell film clip shows Frazier standing and looking at Prayer Man for the whole period of the clip with Gloria Calvery climbing the steps…There is no other credible interpretation of what you see with your own eyes than Frazier has heard Calvery by the point of Couch/Darnell and is staring in shock at Sarah like he described repeatedly in multiple statements and interviews…
Mr Kamp opts to respond to this obvious evidence by denying Calvery has been located…Kamp says Calvery’s position has not been established…But neither Mr Kamp nor Ed LeDoux confront Calvery’s discoverer, Sandy Larsen, on his identification of Calvery…And shamefully Larsen has now dropped his own discovery once he realized it debunked the Prayer Man theory he supports…Calvery being seen climbing the steps in Couch/Darnell proves beyond a doubt that she has already completed her run to the steps shouting the president has been shot like Frazier and Lovelady described…That means Frazier has already heard what Calvery said and has already turned to Sarah in shock like he makes more than clear in his 2013 interview…Couch/Darnell shows Frazier staring at and focused on Prayer Man for its entire length which, for all sober analyzers of evidence, necessitates Prayer Man being Sarah Stanton…This is hardly “drivel”…It is a conclusive argument of hard evidence based on the facts that is conspicuously avoided by its critics and goes noticeably unanswered…
I spoke to both Chris Calvery and his brother Craig…Chris is the son that Fagin references as having challenged Westbrook’s identification of his mother…Chris is the son who instructed me that “Tall Woman” in Betzner 3 is his mother Gloria…Craig was less studied on the subject…When I sent him the evidence he responded that Tall Woman was the best of all the candidates for his mother…When I tried to get recorded interviews with the two sons they did not respond…Mr LeDoux is not being truthful here and Sandy Larsen did credibly identify Calvery on the steps by means of Thornton – who is the only woman in the Plaza in all white and therefore has to be climbing the steps with Calvery in Couch/Darnell…Larsen’s Calvery is the real Calvery because Frazier and Lovelady said she had spoken to Lovelady & Shelley before they left the steps…
This is accurate and is also unanswered by both ROKC members LeDoux and Kamp…Mr LeDoux’s sincerity and quest for accuracy will be proven by his confronting Sandy Larsen on his discovery of Calvery on the steps…So far not one Prayer Man advocate has confronted Larsen on his discovery of Calvery on the steps…And I think we know the reason why…
An excellent presentation!
55 years of deception and cover-up is unraveling due to some fine research.
The discovery of “Calvery” on the steps in the Couch/Darnell sequence does not correspond with what happens after Bill Shelley leaves the steps —->
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/?q=william%20shelley
“Calvery” cannot be already over by the steps, yet be Where Shelley actually engages her after he leaves the steps.
You got that right Alan, it has been put forward dozens of times already, but it is better to stick to some other fantasy than trying to rhyme this affidavit with someone’s finding of which it seems it is hard to let go off..
Anyone can look at the aforementioned film evidence and see Shelley quickly speaks to Running Woman as she darts past Lovelady & Shelley as they head up the Elm St extension…Look closely at the slow-motion enlargement of the Dunckel clip and you will see Running Woman turn her head towards Shelley in response as she runs by…It is highly possible that Running Woman is Depository employee Carol Reed seeing how Reed was said to be with Calvery, Karen Hicks, and Karen Westbrook in the spectators…Why Shelley called Running Woman “Calvery” is beyond me…Maybe it was simply a mistake in memory and combining his talk with Calvery at the steps with his confronting Running Woman as she ran by in his memory…But any look at the film evidence quickly proves that the real Calvery is seen in her green plaid skirt and short-length sweater and those forensic identifiers can be photogrammetrically proven beyond a doubt…Take this evidence to any photo analysis professional and he will instantly confirm that the woman on the steps and the woman in the motorcade spectators are the same person…
Thomas Graves and myself have recently refined our Prayer Man evidence…We found the identifiable green plaid skirt of Gloria Calvery on the woman on the steps in the Darnell film…We also found the same identical short-length sweater on Calvery in the motorcade spectators as the one seen on Calvery on the steps…There’s no doubt the photo forensic match of these articles of clothing are irrefutable evidence of Calvery being seen at the steps in Darnell…Additionally, both Billy Lovelady and Buell Frazier said Calvery spoke to Lovelady & Shelley at the steps before Lovelady & Shelley headed up the Elm St extension…It was Kamp himself who identified Lovelady & Shelley heading up the extension in the Couch/Darnell film…So the fact you see Lovelady & Shelley about 3 seconds after speaking to Calvery at the steps is also irrefutable evidence of the woman at the steps being Calvery…
Once you recognize that Gloria Calvery has been positively identified as being at the steps in Couch/Darnell then you have to go to Buell Frazier’s multiple interviews where he said that after he heard Calvery shouting the president has been shot he “turned to Sarah and they each stared at each other in shock for the longest time”…The timing of the Couch/Darnell film being 3 or so seconds after Calvery spoke to Lovelady & Shelley means that Calvery has finished her shouting and therefore Frazier is well in to “staring at Sarah in shock for the longest time”…Frazier is looking at Prayer Man for the entire length of the Couch/Darnell clip so that, by necessity, makes Prayer Man Sarah Stanton…This is further confirmed by the fact Prayer Man has buttons on “his” garment that match women’s dress buttons and are too low on the garment to be Oswald’s…Prayer Man has a purse in his hand…Chris Davidson has brought the face of a woman out on Prayer Man in his enhancement of the Wiegman film…Prayer Man has Stanton’s obese hips and forearm visible in Darnell…Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton’s 5 foot 4 height…
You have hosted an individual, Bart Kamp, who lied when shown this evidence and said Calvery could not be identified in Couch/Darnell…Any photo analysis professional who looks at the film evidence will automatically confirm Calvery’s green plaid skirt and short-length sweater on the woman on the steps in Darnell…
Time to do the right thing ST for the sake of the research community and their right to see correct evidence…
– Brian Doyle
Brian, thank you for commenting on the site. It is not your theory on Prayer Man that I find problematic. I don’t know enough about that specific issue to come out with a definitive guess. What I find tiresome are the constant personal attacks against Bart and against this show and its host. I have no one on to endorse a viewpoint or stamp a theory as correct. I have guests on to RESPECTFULLY explain their research to an audience that is smart yet skeptical (as they should be of every theory). I would have probably had you on months ago had you just stuck to the theory. It’s the personal diatribes and name-calling of people that I find distasteful. But I do thank you for the comment, for the interest in the topic, and the willingness to reach out. I wish you peace. — S.T. Patrick
The entire JFK research community, LN’s and CT’s alike, should clamor as one for clear scans of the films in question. Why they do not is something I shall never understand. Hopefully the scans shall one day manifest regardless.
So Brian which is it.
Anyone who can look at the aforementioned films, or a photogrammetrist and or imagery analyst to see what you claim to see.
We await your reply.
Signed,
THE MANAGEMENT
I would like to say that “the management” is not the management of Midnight Writer News. Thank you. — S.T. Patrick
Well, the obvious answer is both…In the attached link you will see the green plaid skirt as well as the short-length sweater on the woman on the steps (Calvery)…These clothing features are plainly visible to the naked eye…Thomas Graves sees them as well as Sandy Larsen…
Mr LeDoux…I have posted many many times that both Buell Frazier and Billy Lovelady spoke of witnessing Gloria Calvery speak to Lovelady & Shelley at the base of the steps before Lovelady & Shelly headed up the Elm St extension,,,If you are seriously paying attention to this subject we know that Lovelady & Shelley are the two men going up the extension in the Couch/Darnell film because the plaid bars in Lovelady’s shirt were positively matched by Sandy Larsen and Lovelady’s bald spot was also seen…We also know the other man is Shelley because we can see him quickly pull up and speak to Running Woman as she runs by…In the enlarged slow-motion Dunckel clip you can see Running Woman turn her head towards Shelley as she runs by because she’s answering him…Shelley said he spoke to Calvery by the concrete island…He meant Running Woman…So this evidence is not only photographic but is based on spoken testimony as well that corroborates that photographic evidence…Once we confirm that Lovelady & Shelley are about 3 seconds past leaving the steps after speaking to Calvery that also proves the woman seen wearing Calvery’s green plaid skirt and sweater on the steps is her…If you are seriously following this evidence you cannot ignore parts of it or not deal with it as a whole and you must answer to the evidence in its entirety…Not only does the woman on the steps have to be Calvery because of her clothing but she has to be her according to the testimony and the timing it establishes…This is not my “seeing things”, it is a correct interpretation of the soundly evident evidence…
In the year now I have been pointing-out that Lovelady & Shelley being 3 seconds up the extension after leaving the steps necessitates Calvery being at the steps according to all know testimony I have never seen a Prayer Man supporter attempt to answer it…You can see the green plaid skirt and short-length sweater below:
Post #2495 –
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.2490.html
No worries S.T. Patrick
Brian knows his managers well.
Cheers, Ed
Lee harvey Oswald Interrogation:
Cpt Fritz:I asked Him what part of the Building TsBd
he was in at the time of JFK was Shot and He said ,That he was having lunch about that time on the 1st floor. Fritz notes & like Bookout Report. Reads striking similar in following order. 2Nd floor Coke when DPD came in.1St floor had lunch,out front with Bill Shelley,Left Work. (all the exact order as cpt fritz notes). Shelley: it was 10-15 min before `12`.Ball:Where?Shelley:on the 1stFloor over near the telephone.Ball:Did you see him again?Shelley:At DPD when they brought him in.(Notice that no question was asked if LHO was Front TSBD watch motorcade?)
Bugliosi version .?Point is was Lho in Tsbd Doorway? was it billyLovelady? Shelley ? Who in White shirt arms over his head shield him from the sun next to man rumor to be LHO?Do think that Lho was Framed?
With regards Jon’s comment. I suggest to have a look at this document which undeniably supports my case even more.
http://www.prayer-man.com/then-went-outside-to-watch-p-parade/
I agree with Mr Sykes. Let’s try and get clear scans of the find in question and then we can speak with authority. I’ve heard Mr Lamp many times on other shows so I know his conclusions are backed by significant documentary evidence not just very grainy film images. His opponents here sound like they have 100% proof to back their claims when, in fact, they don’t really don’t.
Thank you S. T. for bringing us this, and so many other, opportunities to question and learn about so many unresolved issues concerning this case.
Charlie Greene
My previous comment should have referenced “… scans of the FILM not find” and Mr KAMP, not Mr Lamb.
Sorry.
Charlie Greene
There is a longer presentation by Mr Kamp about ‘Prayer Man’ on YouTube — it can be found via a simple search.
I thought it telling when the esteemed host asked if anyone who was on the steps at the same time Oswald allegedly was, spoke out to defend Oswald after he was put forth as the assassin, then via the Warren Report more or less convicted of the crime, and Mr Kamp was forced to say ‘No’ — after all, how likely is it that Oswald was there and not seen by anyone who knew him? — or if they did see him, they were unwilling to speak out in his defense?
Kudos for asking this question.